RevolutionZ
RevolutionZ
Ep 358 - Arash Kolahi and Alexandria Shaner from ZNet Keep Hope Real
Episode 358 of RevolutionZ has Arash Kolahi and Alexandria Shaner talk about alternative media aims and pursuits, and the state of the left. Having just published a comprehensive, transparent annual report for ZNetwork.org, Arash and Alexandria invite you to shape what their project does next. They explain how a volunteer‑heavy media project doubled its reach through smart syndication, built community spaces that actually talk back, and launched tools that help people act, not just read.
No clickbait pivots. No sanding down radical edges to appease algorithms. Instead, a they explain their “guerrilla outreach” strategy that puts movement analysis, strategy, and vision in front of new audiences on platforms like MSN and Flipboard while keeping the full, uncensored archive at znetwork.org for everyone's easy access. Our conversation breaks down the nuts and bolts—how to jump into Discord, what the annual report reveals about budgets and priorities, and what concrete projects your support accelerates including a powerful new site search for 70,000+ articles, short-form explainers that invite deeper dives, an interactive map of Gaza solidarity encampments, and the All of Us Directory that is built to connect potential volunteers to any of hundreds of groups and projects that welcome help, earchable by skills and location.
We also discuss the emotional stakes in our chaotic times for media and everyone. Fear isn’t just background noise—it’s the government's business model. That’s why Arash and Alexandria advocate for “critical hope,” a practice rooted in analysis and collective action, and for “social self‑defense,” a movement strategy to resist authoritarianism while building the world we want. If you’ve felt stuck between outrage and burnout, this conversation offers a framework and real next steps one can take. Read the report, join the conversation, and tell Z what tools would help you organize where you are.
If Arash and Alexandria communicate to you, resonate for you, please share their episode with a friend, subscribe on ZNetwork for updates, consider donating via their site at ZNetwork.org to help aid them, or via Patreon for RevolutionZ as our new donations will go to them too. Your feedback shapes what we build next.
Hello, my name is Michael Albert, and I am the host of the podcast that's titled Revolutions V. This is our 358th consecutive episode, and for the first time, the only time so far, at least I think the only time so far, I have two guests, which means three of us at once. So I hope the technology holds up. Urash Kalahai is a left economist, social theorist, and consultant. He has over 15 years of experience in economic and financial analysis, consulting and research. His primary areas of interest include economic theory, computer science, behavioral economics, human nature, psychology, and sociology. He's a very narrow fellow. And most notably, Arash is on the staff of znetwork.org. Alexandria is a sailor, writer, organizer, and street medic. She has also been involved in community organizing, media, and education for over 20 years. She is a writer for Extinction Rebellion and is active with Caracol, DSA, and Food Not Bombs. And like Arash Alexandria is also on the staff of Z Network. Also, very narrow person. So Arash Alexandria, welcome to Revolution Z, which I should note is hosted by Z Network.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. Z recently released an annual report to accompany its first fundraising drive since about a year ago. So first, most progressive operations, and especially media, raise money multiple times a year. Why hasn't Z done a fund drive this past year? And what's in the report now? And for that matter, why did you prepare and disseminate it so prominently on the site and to your email list as well? Alexandria, you want to start off?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. I guess that's a broad question. Um to answer the first part. Yes, we've just released our annual financial and progress report, which actually captures 2024 and we're already well into 2025. But we've done this in the same time as start our first fundraising drive in over a year. And the reason those two things are happening simultaneously is not an accident, and it also kind of answers why we haven't done any big fund drive in a year. So this annual report that we started doing last year is a way not only to have transparency as a donor-funded operation and let people who contribute their money or their time or their work to this project see, you know, where does the money go? What have our efforts achieved? It's also a way to uh have us as the staff and to invite our wider community into the discussion of kind of taking a debrief of what we've done, what's worked, what's not working, and to talk about strategy of where we want to go from here. Now, over the past year, we've our last fundraising drive ended kind of in the lead up to the US presidential election in 2024. Working in media, of course, we're inundated with information every day on the ongoing genocide unfolding in Gaza among climate change, um, rising authoritarianism. There's a lot of doom and gloom out there. So we just felt that Z, as an independent media project, but also as primarily a political project, more than you know, a typical nonprofit focused on fundraising, that we were a lean enough operation and we could achieve our goals and continue to maintain our operations without kind of contributing to that doom feed that we felt our community was just burdened by, including ourselves, over the past year. For better or worse, there's a lot of fear and anger and outrage-based messaging that moves people, both to donate to worthy causes and also to act, which is necessary and we need to talk about those things. But we felt like our role over the past year could be to just maintain our focus on contributing and advancing positive vision and strategy and to stay true to the projects that we had committed to without adding to that kind of doom to our community. However, once we've uh finished up last year's progress report and doing all these strategic talks and looking at budgets and priorities for the coming year, we decided, well, okay, now's the time to invite people in with us to look at this progress report, um, to look at our ideas for where we want to go from here and to decide for themselves, you know, is this something I want to continue to or maybe increase my material contribution to, or, you know, send in uh other types of contributions, whether it's work or ideas or just sharing on their platforms. So we felt it it kind of went hand in hand. And that's maybe the the long answer to a complicated question of why we've been quiet in fundraising over the past year and why we're now coupling it with this annual report. I don't know, Irash, if I uh if I missed out any important points of that, feel free.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think that was excellent. Okay, if if part of the motive is fundraising, everybody understands that, I suppose. But if part of the motive is to increase the discussion, uh to get feedback on what you're doing and how you're doing it and uh evaluating it so you can do better, how does anybody do that? That is, people are listening to this. Can you tell them how you think they could in fact have input into your thinking about what you should be doing in the future?
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh a really easy way is to subscribe, get on our mailing list, um, and that way you can see things like this report that was released and uh other um, you know, projects and news that we're doing so that you can even start to know, okay, what is what is going on in this project and where my I want to give my input or involvement. Another thing is you just go on znetwork.org's homepage and there's a link right near the top where you can view the annual report. And I we have lots of ways for people to get involved, whether that's like the typical media ways of um reading and watching and listening to our content and then deciding if you want to share that or discuss that within your networks. So you're kind of an editor in your own right by what you choose to amplify and use in your daily life, as well as we have a Discord channel, which again you can access through our homepage. We're on the social media platforms, you can add your voice there. And then, of course, you can always reach us via email. We have a very open submissions policy for people submitting content if that's a way that you like to contribute and say what you think about what's going on, or if you just, you know, want to contact someone at Z directly and give your feedback. Um, we we do answer emails. There are real humans behind those email addresses every day. So yeah, those are some of the best ways.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I would add that um the annual report not only includes uh information and transparency about what we've accomplished uh over the past year, but also includes our priorities, which we certainly would love to receive feedback on. So, you know, like Alexarina mentioned, transparency is a huge aspect of the annual report for us. And so we have listed there all of our priorities. That's that's definitely open to receiving feedback.
SPEAKER_02:I just want to get you to to uh elaborate on one thing. You said you have a Discord channel. Not everybody knows what a Discord channel is. So I think explaining that, because this is a mechanism by which anyone who relates to the content of the site can, in fact, comment on what's there, not even just at the bottom of an article, but in an area where it's possible to discuss it with other people and even with staff of Z. Isn't that the hope? Now it's not an easy hope to manifest, but the mechanism is there. People just have to use it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's um it's basically just an online chat that's organized according to topics to try and make it easier for people. But yeah, uh, you can join and speak to other people in the community of people who read Zenet. Um, staff, I know Michael, you're active in there sometimes. Um, we've had people kind of self-organize reading groups through it in the past or just share their projects or their things that they think are that are cool that are maybe not on Zenet as articles, but could be in other formats. There's a mutual aid channel. Um, there's like even kind of a a movement-oriented jobs board channel. So that's one way that as an international community we can kind of virtually get together. Um but yeah, it's basically a chat server.
SPEAKER_02:I I think there's a I I don't know why, um, but I think there's reticence to do that. And yet it to me it seems like a really, a really effective way for an operation to communicate with the people who relate to the operation. And you guys are open to it. You've set it up, you've constructed this thing and you work on this thing. So I would urge people who are listening to take advantage of it. What are some of the other, I don't know what to call them, dynamics that you encounter or situations that you encounter in your work doing the znetwork.org, or your own personal other work, which you think are relevant to the, you know, to trying to understand what your what your project is about.
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh maybe I could jump in. Um one of the challenges for any left media uh operation is the megaphone problem, right? Um and you know, any left platform will typically find it challenging to move beyond their traditional or historical audience. And so one of the things that I'm personally most proud of uh that we've accomplished over the past year is not only the fact that we've doubled um the number of our site visitors, but that we've been able to syndicate broadly um even among uh mainstream platforms. Uh so right now, uh Z is syndicated on places like Smart News, MSN, um, and Flipboard. And these are not traditionally left-leaning platforms. Uh we've worked really hard to get syndicated on these platforms, and that's expanded our reach by more than double the uh the audience that we get on uh the Z site itself. Um I think we listed on our annual annual report uh two million unique visitors through our various syndication uh partners, and that might even be a slight underestimate because some of them don't report uh the numbers back. That's just with the ones that do report. I know, for example, on MSN, we have some of the highest readers readership for our articles than uh we do on other syndicated platforms. But that's that does help us broaden our reach beyond what traditionally has been uh Z's audience. And I think part of the fundraising effort is to move that even further, to to bring in more people to the left, to to broaden the left uh umbrella, so to speak. And and so I think you know that's partly what I'm very proud of, or one thing that I'm very proud of. Um, but it's also there's a lot more work to be done, right? If our reach was further, I think it would it would help uh the various movements, uh, right? So I think there's a lot of work to be done, and I think that's that's part of the the reason why we we we are fundraising uh to help these types of efforts to broaden our scope and to broaden our umbrella.
SPEAKER_02:I think there's another part of that that you should be proud of that you probably don't even doesn't even register for you, which is that one could imagine an organization doing that and feeling the impact and drifting its content in a more mainstream direction in order to get still more mainstream outreach. You haven't done that. I certainly haven't seen that when I visit the site, it still seems to me to be one of, if not arguably the most consistently thoughtful in a very radical fashion, content. And so that's admirable. It's not uh, you know, it's not a process that is affecting the editorial choices that you're making. It's just you're just exerting yourself and managing to reach more and more people, which is impressive, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we uh we appreciate that feedback. And I I think it it also comes really down to motivations. Um, like I mentioned initially, we we really view Z as first and foremost a political project more than you know, a media engine where we're chasing the eyes and the clicks. Of course, as a media project, we are and we have to, and that is part of the way we reach people. But the motivation is not to reach as many people as possible full stop. The motivation is to break through information silos. And we've kind of informally called it our guerrilla outreach strategy. So the being on these mainstream news aggregators is a great way to take all the wonderful content that's on Z every day and just put it in front of people's eyes who've never had a chance to see anything like this before. And then they can make up their own mind if it's interesting and they want to pursue it and come back to the site and see what else we have to say. And another way we've been doing that, um, which it does talk about in the annual report, and we've so far in 2025 kind of even more exponentially ramped it up, is through collaborating with not only other media outlets, but with um organizations and movements themselves. So we're not only trying to break out of the like left bubble itself or the corporate versus independent media bubbles and silos. We're really trying to cross-pollinate between uh different movements, between organizations that function more as like mass movement organizations or amplifiers or um more analysis type media or news type media. So basically, we're just trying to break through all these artificial walls in line really with our values, where we're always, you know, trying to have an analysis that breaks through these false divides of like gender, race, class that keep most people fighting each other rather than fighting the billionaires and the various authoritarians and oppressors around the world. So I think it comes down to motivation, which is a big reason of why a Z is different. Like that's truly our motivation. And so our strategies stem from that. Um, and that's why I think we're not really in danger of say tailoring content to something that would get more clicks and likes on MSN or Google, because that that's not really our goal in any way. If if we did that, it it wouldn't be serving our purpose.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's zero clickbait, I think, and I see it everywhere else. But I guess that's an aside.
SPEAKER_01:Um I I will I will add, though, that um it's it's interesting that the various syndication platforms like MSN or Flipboard, they do all have their own internal algorithms. And it's a bit kind of interesting to do an analysis as to what sort of articles do uh get promoted or more you know views on their platforms. Uh within Z, what we do on Z site and what we send out is what we've always done, and we're definitely not going to ever change that. Uh our focus and our mission has always remained the same, and it's not changed. But what does get promoted on these syndicates does sometimes have biases, and there are certain types of articles that that do get uh sort of, you know, uh they seem like they do get published, but they don't get any sort of clicks or views uh depending on on their own algorithms. You know, and and that's something that there's nothing really we can do about, but what we can do is hope that uh as the articles that do sort of break through their algorithms get visibility, more and more folks will see uh ZNet or Z Network as a brand and start just coming directly to our site so they could really get the full um array of articles that we publish daily. That's the hope.
SPEAKER_02:If I haven't made you uncomfortable yet, maybe this will do it. That is, you said that it's that the key factor is sort of motivation and and you know your desires for the site. Well, I think one indicator of that may be something that you're not likely to say yourselves, but I'm gonna say for you, which is most of the times when folks, when organizations and or in particular media institutions are raising money, they're raising very significant sums, uh, sometimes 100 grand, sometimes 200 grand over the course of a year. That's 100,000 or 200,000, uh a lot of money. And uh a good part of it, as with any normal operation, is for salaries for the cost of the work. And there's at least one media institution out there uh for whom that's just not the case. You guys are doing what you're doing, and people can look at the site to see what you're doing and the scale of it, and read the account, and you're doing it with uh almost no uh, you know, a very little bit devoted to salaries, income. So it's effectively largely a volunteer organization, and you're also doing other work because you have to live. Um, you know, the people who work at C and who do the staff and who do all this stuff, um, this incredible load of of work also have full-time jobs in order to to live. So my question is this suppose that your income, not your income, your fundraising grew dramatically. Suppose you were getting the kind of funds that various other media outlets have. What do you think would happen to Z? What do you think you would do if, let's say, all the staff were full-time because you were getting a full-time income from it? Probably a modest one in the case of Z, but enough. What would you do that was different? And put less so, what would you do with money that you raise in this new upcoming time when you're raising money, even if you don't adapt salaries? So first, what difference would it make if you were all full-time?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, if if uh if that were the case, we'd we'd just be doing more, I'm sure. Um, because we're all doing as much as we can at any given moment with lots of other commitments. But, you know, to be honest, I think if we did get, you know, a big influx of resources, we we already have kind of a shortlist and a long list of uh improvements we'd like to make to the existing operations, new projects, um, and we basically take them on as much as we're able, both in terms of um financially and uh other material concerns like time and labor hours. So I I think we would really just continue as we are and continue to expand. And you can read in that annual report, we've got you know some much more long-term ideas that we'd love to.
SPEAKER_02:Can you share some of those? Yeah, that we'd love to give people a feeling.
SPEAKER_00:Um, such as um we've we've played with this idea of doing a radical film festival and talked about it in various levels of detail. But you know, at the moment, we just don't have the resources to put something like that on in a serious way. But it also wouldn't take millions of dollars and hours. It just needs a bit more than we have. Our more like short-term goal and something that we're even already pursuing with a limited budget, is to again scale up and improve our dissemination structures and strategies. So we have a lot of great content every day, adding new content with an archive of, I think, over like 70,000 articles already. And so what we're focusing on now is how do we package this and put this out into the world in ways that reaches people where they are in ways that's useful to them. Um, so sometimes that is like doing more multimedia short form stuff that then invites people in to subjects to engage with our more traditional long-form content. We're very close to launching a new search function on the website, which as a super powerful archive of information is a really important thing for us to have. But it might not seem like a complicated thing, but with a website as big as ours that's gone through as many iterations as it has, you know, it doesn't just happen. It takes expense and and labor. Um but so I think we would continue to pursue some of the goals and ongoing projects that have already been started that are listed in that report and that we share with our mailing list all the time. But definitely I think, yes, we we would just bring in more people and do more projects. Um another thing is we've started developing digital tools. Last year, we um largely thanks to Arash, developed an interactive map of the Gaza Solidarity encampments to track, you know, various metrics of like how many days have they been there, what's the size of it, who, you know, what's the channel people can look at to follow their activity on social media. Um and then about a a year ago almost, we began the planning phase of launching a new digital tool called the All of Us Directory, which has involvement from multiple members of the Z staff and Z friends and is kind of being supported by the nonprofit that runs Z. And that is looking at an October 18th launch date as well. And that's going to be a tool where organizations, everything from the bigger nonprofits to like smaller grassroots local groups, mutual aid groups, um, can list themselves and list what kind of volunteer needs they have, what kind of help they need. And then regular people can search the directory according to those fields. So location, what type of work they're looking to get involved in and what type of skills they have to offer and find some organizations who are looking to plug them in. So yeah, I mean, it's kind of a strange question to a hypothetical, I guess. If we were all of a sudden more well-funded, what would we do? I think we'd do more of the same and better, of course. Um, but I I do think that um, you know, my hope would be and my goal would be not to change, not to let that change the the values and and motivations that we have, where um, you know, Z is looking to advance vision and strategy for social change as it always has been in all of its iterations. Um it's not just looking to grow a mailing list or to have followers on social media and get clicks. These are kind of side tasks that we have to engage in, but it's not why any of us are doing it.
SPEAKER_02:Let me ask you a slightly different question. Iran, you're in California, right? Near LA. And you're in is it North or South Carolina? I can never remember.
SPEAKER_00:South Carolina.
SPEAKER_02:South Carolina. Which means you're both in the United States, which means you're both fielding the shitstorm that is Trumpism. And yet you're working away. You haven't been sidelined by fear, you haven't been sidelined by depression. I'm sure that you have felt, or I would I would guess that you have felt in some sense both, but it's not stopping you. And I think it might be worthwhile to say something about that. About how just you personally, I know this is not comfortable to talk about your pre, you know, but still there are people listening who probably would share virtually all your sentiments, but have been somewhat immobilized, are somewhat depressed or scared. And uh partly I feel like uh as somebody who writes a lot, that's the thing that we have to deal with even more than we have to deal with conveying the facts of the matter, um, you know, and even the implications of the facts for suffering people. Um the obstacle to a massive surge now seems to be more in people's heads and hearts. So, can you address that?
SPEAKER_01:I definitely agree. I mean, I think there is a fear aspect, but I also feel like a huge part of it is kind of what you alluded to about um you know the psychology of it. Um, and I think that's part of what the s the sort of fascist type of propaganda and you know what they call like flood the zone is really the psychological effect. It's just like this constant barrage of bad news, uh, constant barrage of sort of uh dystopian uh perspective that really has a a scary um psychological effect on the left, uh on people who generally would be wanting to get active. And it is critical for us to be able to uh not just withstand that, but also to transcend it. Um and I think part of that is you know one thing that you do a lot of, um, which is talk about vision, talk about hope, uh, talk about strategy, and go back to the basics of how how do we move to a better society from what we have and what we're dealing with today. And and that's just plugging away. I think what part of it is, you know, as an example, you know, like we're doing it, um, it can be done, but also, you know, how we talk about things uh is important. And and I think that's one of the things I love about Z and the Z community um is is that hopeful uh perspective that we try and that hopeful vision that we try to convey that a better world is possible. Um and that's that's at least part of how I feel we can fight against that sort of damaging psychological aspect of um the you know both the mainstream media and the right-wing media. Is that how you manage, Raj?
SPEAKER_02:That is to say, you're sitting out there on the West Coast, you're seeing fires not far from, and that's climate. You're you're seeing uh uh National Guard in the streets of LA, you're seeing craziness all around. Do you find that what you just described is what's doing it for you, what's keeping you above water, or is there something else?
SPEAKER_01:Uh for me personally, I think having in my mind um a liberatory vision and an analysis of what is happening and why it's happening gives me, on a personal level, sort of the the psychological, I guess, tool set to be able to one analyze one's. What's happening and sort of have a shield, for lack of a better word, against that barrage. So, yes, I do I do think on a personal level that's kind of what you know having a framework in mind that sort of helps identify and analyze uh what is happening in our society. Um and then also a framework for how it can uh be better uh is is sort of the tool set that I I find helpful in um in being able to uh withstand that sort of psychological warfare that's happening.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe Alexandria, you could uh address that too. Sort of basically, how do you you as an individual and how do people or how can people weather the times not get too scared or too depressed to struggle on? Um, you know, what helps you get through these times and be productive?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I I agree with what Arash was saying, and I think that um also for me, like my personal stance is very similar to like the the mission of Z, which is a good thing because I spend a lot of time working on it. It's it's really that we need not to be blindly optimistic or hopeful with no reason and no action, but that actually through our understanding, through access to information and then through uh analysis and then action, we just continue to live our life and deal with what we need to deal with. And there's actually two recent examples of um something that we've published on Z that I think speaks to this really well. Uh, one is an article from a fairly frequent contributor and longtime contributed contributor to Z. Um, she's a journalist and a novelist who's lived in both Australia and Mexico, Tamara Pearson. And we published an article that she wrote recently, which talked about um hope depletion and something that she calls critical hope. Um, I think the article is called Nine Ways Hope is being systemically depleted and how to reclaim it. I definitely recommend checking it out. But the idea is basically that hope isn't fading naturally, and this fear and kind of paralysis that we experience is not just natural. Um, it's being systemically suppressed by political, economic, and media systems that actually benefit from our passivity and from a demoralized public. So, what she's calling for, and I think a lot of the stuff that Zee advances is calling for, is this critical hope, which is a hope rooted more in awareness, in resistance and in collective action. Um, so I definitely recommend checking out that article among others at Z, both for an understanding of kind of like where are these feelings of hopelessness and fear coming from, um, aside from just like the constant drip feed of bad news that is in our phones and computers. But like systemically, how does this work and why is it being put upon all of us? Um, and then she gives some ideas of how to reclaim your hope, which I really liked. Um, and Arash spoke to partially as well, of like how to reject that passive optimism, um, things that Z can help you out with, seeking truth and clarity, remembering history, um, finding ways to organize collectively and seeing these crises as an opportunity. And that is kind of the perfect segue into another project I really wanted to mention today, which is a new report Z collaborated on from Jeremy Brecker, who was one of their original contributors to Z magazine back in the day and is still going strong. Um, and his organization, the Labor Network for Sustainability. Um, so this new report is, I think it's entitled A Movement-Based Opposition to Trump and MAGA. And you can find it um linked on Z's homepage. He just published a shorter op-ed if you're not into reading the whole thing today. But basically, this report outlines what he's terming social self-defense, which is um just a way to describe collective action by us, by civil society to defend everything from our actual institutions, our rights, our norms, and our relations to each other to make a healthy society. So it's both a way to resist uh rising authoritarianism, oppression, tyranny, and a way to move beyond into something better. So it's not a solution that just says we need to go back to how it was, um, you know, vote dem and it'll be fine. It's a strategy for moving on this electoralism and for um protecting and taking care of each other as a means to actually building the world we want and resisting fascism. Um, so those are kind of like two recommendations that have been really motivating to me, um, and not in a sense of I wake up and feel like everything is fine and you know, I don't have to do anything or I can't do anything even if I try. But in terms of like that kind of critical understanding of, I would like to understand why I sometimes feel like the world is falling down around me and it's intentional, and the powerful are are doing this to those of us with less or no power. Um, and to kind of take that understanding and say, well, actually, what power do we have? And how can we build what we want and how can we talk to each other and even figure out what we want? Um there's there's a lot to be done. And I I feel like I always end up as a guest on your podcast with like the same final thought of you do do what speaks to you, do what you can where you are with the people around you. And like that's the medicine and that's the solution because the paralysis is no good, the fear and hope is no good, but neither is this like kind of optimism, like I'll just ignore it and everything will be fine. It's just, you know, look around where you are, do what you can and do it with the people around you. And hopefully, the reason that I spend a lot of time and effort on this project, Z is a resource that can give you a lot of tools and connections with people around the world who are doing the same thing.
SPEAKER_02:I just want to, as the old guy in the room, add something. Because what you said, would that there were more people saying it in 1968, 69, 70, 71, etc. Because uh my generation didn't do what I think you guys were trying to do. We those of us who were highly active were not immobilized, but the way that we got past being immobilized wasn't so healthy. It was to talk only to ourselves often, to ignore or deny the dangers and the hardships, to sort of race forward without an eye toward communicating with others. Which I could go on. The point is, I think in fact what's happening out there, while on one angle, it's pretty horrible, and it does auger very serious dangers well beyond what we faced back when. There's also a plus side to what's going on out there. People are are trying to construct something that can last and that can speak widely and that can uh retain humanity as well as anger, and not just the one, the anger. I don't know whether that's clear, but there is a lot of of room for, as you say, a whole lot of work, but the optimistic side of that is that I think that whole lot of work can actually succeed. And we're starting to see successes right now um here in the US and elsewhere. Uh and one of those is obviously the work that you do at Z. So I hope people will consider uh uh lending a hand to the project. Um Do either of you have anything that you want to add before we we sign off? I always ask that. It always is a headache for the person who's on the show because they don't want to go on endlessly, but they you know. So sometimes somebody has something they really want to add. So do either of you have anything you'd like to say about Z or whatever before we sign off?
SPEAKER_00:I I guess like we, you know, we've already shared how to how to find us, zNetwork.org, um, all the usual ways of, you know, how closely you want to stay in touch and how often you want to hear from us. But beyond that, I I would just like to say that we we do actually receive feedback from people sometimes saying how much they appreciate our work and or maybe a certain piece of work that one of our contributors provided, like an article that really spoke to them. And we we get it via email, we get it via Discord, comment section, sometimes even snail mail still. And so I would just like to say um if any of those people are Revolution Z listeners, thank you so much, and those little um bits of feedback, not that we don't want the critical feedback as well. We will also take that. But for the people who who spend the time and just like tell us they appreciate our work, for as much uh you know, hard and sometimes unpleasant and unpaid work that we're doing, like that really gives us a boost. So thank you.
SPEAKER_02:So you mean my criticisms don't give you a boost?
SPEAKER_00:Michael, you have a you have a folder where we put that feedback. That's all I'll say about that folder.
SPEAKER_01:No, just to echo uh Alexandria, you know, we're very grateful for our supporters, um, both those who donate and those who cannot donate, but find other ways to uh give us words of encouragement. Um we're very grateful uh for all of our supporters and and we hope that continues so that we can also continue and further our work. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you both for being here, being on the show. And all that said, this is Mike Albert signing off until next time for Revolution Z.